I don't see that as being a big leap at all, cofty. Maybe it's my delusion, but it sounds absolutely reasonable to me that intelligence must be behind nature. I can demonstrate everyday that information can only come from greater information and not be generated on its own. Life must come from life, and cannot come from non life. Yet, it's unreasonable and appealing to a god of the gaps when one sees that it cannot be demonstrated with a godless point of view.
Christ Alone
JoinedPosts by Christ Alone
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277
How Modern Christianity has failed Christians
by Christ Alone ini've recently been thinking about our culture and how christianity in our western culture has failed to keep up with advancements in science.
) churches have let reason sink into the intellectual closet of fundamentalism.
"feel good" churches seem to be the norm today.
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Is the Trinitarian view point correct based on this passage-Titus 2:13?
by I_love_Jeff intitus 2:13- "while we wait for the blessed hope-the appearing of the glory of our great god and savior, jesus christ, " .
the part in question lies at the end of the passage "...of our great god and savior, jesus christ,".
*granville sharp's rule-when you have two nouns, which are not proper names (such as cephas, or paul, or timothy), which are describing a person, and the two nouns are connected by the word "and," and the first noun has the article ("the") while the second does not, *both nouns are referring to the same person.. this, as far as i know, has been an ongoing argument among trinitarians and non trinitarians for a very long time.
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Christ Alone
Essentially, yes, wolfman. When the Bible speaks of God, it CAN be referring to any of three persons. The true is same of the name "Jehovah", but that's a whole 'nother issue. Saying that Jesus is God is not saying that Jesus is the Father. There is only 1 true God. And that true God exists in the persons of Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. While many others are "CALLED" gods, there is only 1 true God. Jesus is not "A" god. He is God. "A" would imply that there are many true gods. But as far as nature goes, there is only 3 people that can call themselves the True God.
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277
How Modern Christianity has failed Christians
by Christ Alone ini've recently been thinking about our culture and how christianity in our western culture has failed to keep up with advancements in science.
) churches have let reason sink into the intellectual closet of fundamentalism.
"feel good" churches seem to be the norm today.
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Christ Alone
It's not only something that science can't answer, cofty. I'm ok with that. But there are only a finite number of possibilities. And the only possibilities without God being involved are an eternal universe or something from nothing. Yes, there is a god of the gaps idea in that science can't answer it, therefore God. But as of this moment the BEST explanation for the universe is intelligence. The others (eternal universe and something from nothing) are nonsense. At least in my view.
So instead of acknowledging that they are not good explanations and that as of now an intelligence is the best explanation, atheists appeal to the god of the gaps argument.
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277
How Modern Christianity has failed Christians
by Christ Alone ini've recently been thinking about our culture and how christianity in our western culture has failed to keep up with advancements in science.
) churches have let reason sink into the intellectual closet of fundamentalism.
"feel good" churches seem to be the norm today.
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Christ Alone
Cofty, wow...I remembered it differently. Goes to show that we can't rely on our own memory.
So if the other church members would have reacted differently, say for example that it was merely an accident that God allowed to happen, then would that have affected you the same? It wasn't the act of this man dying that affected you, but their reaction to it? Would it have helped if they would have said, "We don't know why God lets things happen"?
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277
How Modern Christianity has failed Christians
by Christ Alone ini've recently been thinking about our culture and how christianity in our western culture has failed to keep up with advancements in science.
) churches have let reason sink into the intellectual closet of fundamentalism.
"feel good" churches seem to be the norm today.
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Christ Alone
It's a theory that states that the current expansion of the universe is only the most recent in an eternally expanding and imploading universe. If you don't want to accept that theory, there are plenty of others. But if you don't, you are left with the unanswerable question (at least from an atheist position), that there was nothing before the singularity. Where did the singularity come from? How did nothing become something? What caused the effect? What effected the cause?
As far as I can see, those are the only options that atheism leaves you.
1. Something comes from nothing
2. The universe is eternal and there was "always" something
Both have inumerable problems.
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Greetings from a new member
by EdenOne ingreetings everyone.. just wanted to say hello to everyone, being a new member from western europe.. some may know me from another forum (eden, from e-jehovas-witnesses.com), but most don't, so this is my little intro.. male, in my early 40's.
still an active member in good standing of a jehovah's witnesses congregation in my country, and honestly not planning to change that status, despite my unorthodox beliefs.
sometime i will elaborate the reason why i don't feel i must leave.
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Christ Alone
Besides, I didn't come here to preach, rather to discuss.
I like you, Eden. You're a refreshing change from some of the other JWs that we've had on this site recently...
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277
How Modern Christianity has failed Christians
by Christ Alone ini've recently been thinking about our culture and how christianity in our western culture has failed to keep up with advancements in science.
) churches have let reason sink into the intellectual closet of fundamentalism.
"feel good" churches seem to be the norm today.
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-
Christ Alone
Jesus foretold that people would give up because of the length of time it took for him to return. This wasn't unexpected. Remember the virgins with the oil lamps? He told us it was going to be a long wait himself. So it's strange that someone can then say exactly what he said they'd say. "Time's up, Jesus. We gave you long enough." Pretty much exactly what the virgins said and returned home without enough oil for their lamps. The wait just isn't unexpected.
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277
How Modern Christianity has failed Christians
by Christ Alone ini've recently been thinking about our culture and how christianity in our western culture has failed to keep up with advancements in science.
) churches have let reason sink into the intellectual closet of fundamentalism.
"feel good" churches seem to be the norm today.
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Christ Alone
That was me speaking to another believer, bohm. But in terms of argument, it is a better argument to say that something was made than to say that without direction something came from nothing. That is what atheists understand about the universe. Either the universe is eternal and there was always "something", or at some point something came from nothing. I believe it's a better argument (and a more reasonable one) to say that something came from something. Eternity is something that must be taken into account in both science and belief. Something has to be eternal, otherwise something came from nothing. An eternal God sounds more reasonable to me than an eternal string of never ending big bangs.
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20
Is the Trinitarian view point correct based on this passage-Titus 2:13?
by I_love_Jeff intitus 2:13- "while we wait for the blessed hope-the appearing of the glory of our great god and savior, jesus christ, " .
the part in question lies at the end of the passage "...of our great god and savior, jesus christ,".
*granville sharp's rule-when you have two nouns, which are not proper names (such as cephas, or paul, or timothy), which are describing a person, and the two nouns are connected by the word "and," and the first noun has the article ("the") while the second does not, *both nouns are referring to the same person.. this, as far as i know, has been an ongoing argument among trinitarians and non trinitarians for a very long time.
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Christ Alone
I always thought that the Athanasian Creed stated that "the three are co-equal and co-eternal".
Have I got that wrong - that they are simply of the same "nature", as the angels would be also?
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have a unique nature specific only to them. So it's not the same "stuff" as the angels. However, to use an analogy, if I was to have a son, he would be the same nature as I, although he is a different person. The Trinity does not state that Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father are the same person. It simply states that they are all eternal and equal in nature. Do they have different positions and roles? Yes. But that doesn't change their nature. They are, by nature, God. God is a term of nature, just as Man is a term of nature.
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277
How Modern Christianity has failed Christians
by Christ Alone ini've recently been thinking about our culture and how christianity in our western culture has failed to keep up with advancements in science.
) churches have let reason sink into the intellectual closet of fundamentalism.
"feel good" churches seem to be the norm today.
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-
Christ Alone
I thought that was the springboard that started everything off. I didn't mean to distort the story. I really thought that was the main reason that got you thinking that maybe God was not as good as we thought he was.